Rules Clarifications (Player Input required!)

Discuss rules and clarifications for Chronicles of Darkness (aka 2nd Edition/2E) publications.

Discussions can include books not available for play in Wanton Wicked.

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Re: Rules Clarifications (Player Input required!)

Post by Scarecrow » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:57 am

To add a bit of a clarification here, the Beast is a wild, unpredictable, blood lusting monster. It wants nothing more than to destroy anything in front of it or to run away if that creature is too powerful for it.
What this means for weapons in frenzy? There's no conscious thought involved. The Beast doesn't think "I have a knife on my hip, that'll help me here." It goes in right for the throat and tries to tear it out with the Beast's teeth. If it's not something you can naturally do, like claws, or don't already have it in your hand generally speaking (this is generally up to the ST to decide) but you aren't going to be able to use it.
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Post by Meztli » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:59 am

Are the Mind 3 and Mind 4 spells "Enhance Skill" (Increase skills you possess dots in) and "Gain Skill" (Increase skills you don't possess dots in) mutually exclusive, or can you use Gain Skill to also increase skills you already possess? This is mainly a question for the purposes of casting the spells on others when you don't know everyone's skill sets.
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Post by Regentwill » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:22 am

To add a bit of a clarification here, the Beast is a wild, unpredictable, blood lusting monster. It wants nothing more than to destroy anything in front of it or to run away if that creature is too powerful for it.
What this means for weapons in frenzy? There's no conscious thought involved. The Beast doesn't think "I have a knife on my hip, that'll help me here." It goes in right for the throat and tries to tear it out with the Beast's teeth. If it's not something you can naturally do, like claws, or don't already have it in your hand generally speaking (this is generally up to the ST to decide) but you aren't going to be able to use it.
Is this clarification you got from ChrisF? I'm confused here a bit.

EDIT: I ask this because what you have posted here is extremely contradictory to what is posted i the book.

According to page 104, the beast will do anything within its power to accomplish its goals, and lists options as just straight out punching or even grabbing and throwing someone.

Also, in the same paragraph, it states that the beast is capable of doing anything a wild predator might do.

when you frenzy, you choose the desire of your beast, it's not entirely delegated to "kill who makes me mad!" or "EAT!" it might be "overpower bob" or "Stalk Samuel" and the book clearly states you get the choose the desire of your beast, and the choices are many.

So, my point here is "will do anything within its power" and "Isnt stupid" to be translates to not throwing yourself at someone when you have a chance die to grab them when if you have a club, you clearly have something "within your power" that will do the job.
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Post by Vannex » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:36 pm

For Mage spells with ritual casting,
1) Is the subject required to be within range for the entire spell, or just the end of it, without sympathetic threshold?
2) Does the spell carrier if not the caster, need to be within range for the entire spell, or just the end of it, without sympathetic threshold?
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Post by ChrisF » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:57 pm

Meztli wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:59 am Are the Mind 3 and Mind 4 spells "Enhance Skill" (Increase skills you possess dots in) and "Gain Skill" (Increase skills you don't possess dots in) mutually exclusive, or can you use Gain Skill to also increase skills you already possess? This is mainly a question for the purposes of casting the spells on others when you don't know everyone's skill sets.
If they affect the same skill, spell stacking rules apply. So, no, you cant do gain skill and then enhance skill on the same skill. But you can have them both active affecting DIFFERENT skills.
Regentwill wrote:
To add a bit of a clarification here, the Beast is a wild, unpredictable, blood lusting monster. It wants nothing more than to destroy anything in front of it or to run away if that creature is too powerful for it.
What this means for weapons in frenzy? There's no conscious thought involved. The Beast doesn't think "I have a knife on my hip, that'll help me here." It goes in right for the throat and tries to tear it out with the Beast's teeth. If it's not something you can naturally do, like claws, or don't already have it in your hand generally speaking (this is generally up to the ST to decide) but you aren't going to be able to use it.
Is this clarification you got from ChrisF? I'm confused here a bit.

EDIT: I ask this because what you have posted here is extremely contradictory to what is posted i the book.

According to page 104, the beast will do anything within its power to accomplish its goals, and lists options as just straight out punching or even grabbing and throwing someone.

Also, in the same paragraph, it states that the beast is capable of doing anything a wild predator might do.

when you frenzy, you choose the desire of your beast, it's not entirely delegated to "kill who makes me mad!" or "EAT!" it might be "overpower bob" or "Stalk Samuel" and the book clearly states you get the choose the desire of your beast, and the choices are many.

So, my point here is "will do anything within its power" and "Isnt stupid" to be translates to not throwing yourself at someone when you have a chance die to grab them when if you have a club, you clearly have something "within your power" that will do the job.
As I said, simple, straightforward weapons can be used. That includes drawing them if it would be a significant advantage over fists/claws/teeth.

Vannex wrote: For Mage spells with ritual casting,
1) Is the subject required to be within range for the entire spell, or just the end of it, without sympathetic threshold?
2) Does the spell carrier if not the caster, need to be within range for the entire spell, or just the end of it, without sympathetic threshold?
As far as I can tell, the entire spell, but I'll double check if the Developer has commented on that.
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Post by Meztli » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:52 am

ChrisF wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:57 pm
Meztli wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:59 am Are the Mind 3 and Mind 4 spells "Enhance Skill" (Increase skills you possess dots in) and "Gain Skill" (Increase skills you don't possess dots in) mutually exclusive, or can you use Gain Skill to also increase skills you already possess? This is mainly a question for the purposes of casting the spells on others when you don't know everyone's skill sets.
If they affect the same skill, spell stacking rules apply. So, no, you cant do gain skill and then enhance skill on the same skill. But you can have them both active affecting DIFFERENT skills.
To clarify, my question was if one could use Gain Skill, by itself, to enhance a skill you already possess a dot in.
I.e. if you cast Gain Skill (Larceny) on two characters, one of which has Larceny 3 and one which has Larceny 0 for a potency of 2, will you get two characters with respectively Larceny 5 and Larceny 2, or one unaffected character with Larceny 3 and one affected character with Larceny 2?
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Post by ChrisF » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:04 am

Meztli wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:52 am
ChrisF wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:57 pm
Meztli wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:59 am Are the Mind 3 and Mind 4 spells "Enhance Skill" (Increase skills you possess dots in) and "Gain Skill" (Increase skills you don't possess dots in) mutually exclusive, or can you use Gain Skill to also increase skills you already possess? This is mainly a question for the purposes of casting the spells on others when you don't know everyone's skill sets.
If they affect the same skill, spell stacking rules apply. So, no, you cant do gain skill and then enhance skill on the same skill. But you can have them both active affecting DIFFERENT skills.
To clarify, my question was if one could use Gain Skill, by itself, to enhance a skill you already possess a dot in.
I.e. if you cast Gain Skill (Larceny) on two characters, one of which has Larceny 3 and one which has Larceny 0 for a potency of 2, will you get two characters with respectively Larceny 5 and Larceny 2, or one unaffected character with Larceny 3 and one affected character with Larceny 2?
Ah, sorry. Gain Skill can be used on skills you have, but unlike enhance skill it won't stack with an existing rating. So a Potency 3 Gain Skill on a skill you have 2 dots of gives you 3, not 5.
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Post by Regentwill » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:45 pm

Auspex and Clash of Wills. According to the errata, while Auspex is active, it's constantly active. Does this mean when you are in Astral Projection, anyone using obfuscate gets a CoW if you can perceive them? Or how about while Lay open the mind is active through a scene?
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Post by ChrisF » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:47 pm

Regentwill wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:45 pm Auspex and Clash of Wills. According to the errata, while Auspex is active, it's constantly active. Does this mean when you are in Astral Projection, anyone using obfuscate gets a CoW if you can perceive them? Or how about while Lay open the mind is active through a scene?
NO, you still need to activate the lower levels, it just simply means that anything that's normally stop you from activating 'another' discipline without stopping currently active ones won't prevent you from using the other levels of it in those circumstances.
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Post by Regentwill » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:55 pm

So then from what I read, anything 1-3 will pierce Obfuscate, anything above that does not? Just to clarify.
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Post by WastedMuse » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:22 pm

Does the Mage write up for Universal Language, also apply to First tongue?

It's my understanding that physically most humans can't physically form the words for the First Tongue.

Thanks for clarification!
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Post by ChrisF » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:28 pm

Regentwill wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:55 pm So then from what I read, anything 1-3 will pierce Obfuscate, anything above that does not? Just to clarify.
Right
WastedMuse wrote: Does the Mage write up for Universal Language, also apply to First tongue?

It's my understanding that physically most humans can't physically form the words for the First Tongue.

Thanks for clarification!
It applies to first tongue, in that it'd allow someone to understand it, but it doesn't provide magical vocal chords that speak it properly, no.
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Post by Regentwill » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:20 pm

Does the Mage write up for Universal Language, also apply to First tongue?

It's my understanding that physically most humans can't physically form the words for the First Tongue.

Thanks for clarification!
It applies to first tongue, in that it'd allow someone to understand it, but it doesn't provide magical vocal chords that speak it properly, no.

This has actually come up, you don't have the vocal chords that allow you to speak first tongue, but you CAN speak it harshly, like a first year lanugage student talking to someone who is fluent, so would the mage spell recreate that as well?
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Post by ChrisF » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:34 pm

Regentwill wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:20 pm Does the Mage write up for Universal Language, also apply to First tongue?

It's my understanding that physically most humans can't physically form the words for the First Tongue.

Thanks for clarification!
It applies to first tongue, in that it'd allow someone to understand it, but it doesn't provide magical vocal chords that speak it properly, no.

This has actually come up, you don't have the vocal chords that allow you to speak first tongue, but you CAN speak it harshly, like a first year lanugage student talking to someone who is fluent, so would the mage spell recreate that as well?
It won't let them speak it 'properly', but they can make the same attempt as any human with the language, yes.
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Post by WastedMuse » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:59 pm

Thank you guys for clearing that up, I appreciate it.
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