From freehold decree post

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PrettyNPink
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Re: From freehold decree post

Post by PrettyNPink » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:56 pm

GrayEyedDevil2154 wrote:I mean, go figure. Changelings dislike someone who willing enslaves themselves to other powers.
You would think every trauma victim would agree people who blood bond themselves to vampires are not to be trusted. :wu:
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Post by GrayEyedDevil2154 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:49 am

PrettyNPink wrote:
GrayEyedDevil2154 wrote:I mean, go figure. Changelings dislike someone who willing enslaves themselves to other powers.
You would think every trauma victim would agree people who blood bond themselves to vampires are not to be trusted. :wu:
I can understand the reasons why a Changeling may seek out a blood bond with a vampire considering the type of trauma they have faced. Just as I can understand why some changelings are loyalists and continue to serve the Gentry.

However, I do not think it strange or unexpected that changeling leadership would take issues with those things. Because a blood bond is Enslavement. The crowns aren't saying 'hey, dont be friends with vampires' or 'hey, don't hang out around vampires'. They are saying 'hey, we dont want to hang around people who drink their blood and become their all serving puppets'
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Post by Mephi » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:28 am

Actually, the 2e blood bond is not enslavement. Its different. You fall in love with the vampire, sure, but that doesn't mean you're a slave. The bond gives social bonuses and a breaking point for harming the vampire (which, amusingly enough, is actually a potential benefit for werewolves and changelings, if it applies to these supernaturals at all). At every step, the vampire actually does need to convince the bonded to do things if they're opposed, just with some bonuses. Free will and choice remain throughout the bonding, unless Dominate comes into play.

Irregardless though? It doesn't matter if the blood bond is slavery or not, because that's actually beside the point.

No one is objecting to the point that the leaders don't like blood bonds. They're entiteld to their opinion, and its an opinion many people share. The problem is that the leaders are trying to force their opinions on everyone else with heavy handed methods. And that's kind of strange, considering that we have two Courts that are very deliberately anti-establishment. Portland Courts are not monarchies, and the action just doesn't fit what the Courts stand for.
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venaat
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Post by venaat » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:45 am

So my only question is why is this all being taken ooc? It sounds like there's no differentiation between the two being made here? That's kind of like assuming someone is thier character which isnt cool.
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PrettyNPink
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Post by PrettyNPink » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:24 am

I'm not seeing an ooc complaint here either. It's IC. If it's strange in your opinion...investigate.

However, the first war was started by people blood bonding across factions. It makes perfect sense to express a mistrust of that. I'd suggest reading the time line pages of each venue.

By the way this has been expressed in vampire court and werewolf court. Your leadership, represents you and still leads you. They made a call, around the same time other faction leadership did. React to it IC.
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Post by WolfG » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:43 am

If the Crown has no power, why is there a Crown at all?

All I'm saying.
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Post by Hamster » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:56 pm

Changeling crowns don't have power the same way a Prince does. They are selected by the Wyrd as leaders. As for the blood bonds, its just as Mephi says, there is NOTHING in it that is slavery until you get dominate in it. Which by the by, still works without the bond. Now if we're IC talking about it, fine. That's one thing, but talking about it oocly? We should all be clear that a blood bond is not necessarily enslavement, hell you can flat out ignore your regnant if your social pools are high enough. I've done this on more than one occasion on other games. Until Discplines are added, it's not enslavement. The Crowns exist because they are the people who talk for us, their basically glorified congress members. At from how I've seen.
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Post by BishieBoy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:04 pm

PrettyNPink wrote:I'm not seeing an ooc complaint here either. It's IC. If it's strange in your opinion...investigate.

However, the first war was started by people blood bonding across factions. It makes perfect sense to express a mistrust of that. I'd suggest reading the time line pages of each venue.

By the way this has been expressed in vampire court and werewolf court. Your leadership, represents you and still leads you. They made a call, around the same time other faction leadership did. React to it IC.
I don't really have a horse in this, but I'd like to take a moment to correct you on the history regarding the start of the war. The War of the Four was started, not because of a blood bond, but because someone was Embraced against the wishes of their family. To be specific, here are the two relevant excerpts.

From the Vampire Timeline:
1965 Lady Alexandria D’Ambrosio? falls in love with a Kindred, embraced in order for their “love” to be true. Wolves take offence to this, and hunt down the entire coterie, putting them all to death. The Prince of Portland calls for war to avenge the unnecessary slaughter of their kind. Kindred-Wolf war begins.
From the Werewolf Timeline:
1965 Lady Alexandria D’Ambrosio? is set to take over as the head of the family when she First Changes. However, before she does, she’s seduced by a vampire, who embraces her against the family wishes. The D’Ambrosio family refuses to accept this, instead hunting down the vampire and causing the true death of both the vampire, and that vampire’s entire coterie. The status of Lady Alexandria after the raid is unknown. In response, the Vampires declare war.
And I think the jist of the OOC complaint is that, according to the fluff of the setting material for the courts, while the decree is in line with Gristle, and how Gristle responds to things, the responses of the other two courts are not in line with the setting material, from the perspective of some of the players. Hopefully, that adds some clarity to the discussion.
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PrettyNPink
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Post by PrettyNPink » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:29 pm

BishieBoy wrote:
PrettyNPink wrote:I'm not seeing an ooc complaint here either. It's IC. If it's strange in your opinion...investigate.

However, the first war was started by people blood bonding across factions. It makes perfect sense to express a mistrust of that. I'd suggest reading the time line pages of each venue.

By the way this has been expressed in vampire court and werewolf court. Your leadership, represents you and still leads you. They made a call, around the same time other faction leadership did. React to it IC.
I don't really have a horse in this, but I'd like to take a moment to correct you on the history regarding the start of the war. The War of the Four was started, not because of a blood bond, but because someone was Embraced against the wishes of their family. To be specific, here are the two relevant excerpts.

From the Vampire Timeline:
1965 Lady Alexandria D’Ambrosio? falls in love with a Kindred, embraced in order for their “love” to be true. Wolves take offence to this, and hunt down the entire coterie, putting them all to death. The Prince of Portland calls for war to avenge the unnecessary slaughter of their kind. Kindred-Wolf war begins.
From the Werewolf Timeline:
1965 Lady Alexandria D’Ambrosio? is set to take over as the head of the family when she First Changes. However, before she does, she’s seduced by a vampire, who embraces her against the family wishes. The D’Ambrosio family refuses to accept this, instead hunting down the vampire and causing the true death of both the vampire, and that vampire’s entire coterie. The status of Lady Alexandria after the raid is unknown. In response, the Vampires declare war.
And I think the jist of the OOC complaint is that, according to the fluff of the setting material for the courts, while the decree is in line with Gristle, and how Gristle responds to things, the responses of the other two courts are not in line with the setting material, from the perspective of some of the players. Hopefully, that adds some clarity to the discussion.
I'm pretty sure there is more suggestion to it in other parts of the wiki that this "love" was in quotations because a blood bonding existed or was suspected to exist. I can't check from my phone though.

Regardless how you may feel about it, that they are monarchs or they are congress... you still have to follow what they decide, or choose to disobey. It's story plot. Challenge it. Start a movement. Try to change minds ic instead or trying to change them ooc.

As players we don't always see all the moving parts behind the scenes. This is a horror role playing game. Be scared! Be excited! Tackle the plot head first. Ignore it. The setting is there and it's being influenced. I suggest trying to influence the IC instead. Trust the story, we don't know everything from the wiki. We are not supposed to always know why. We are not supposed to feel secure. It's fun. Make the choices your pc would ic and carry on.

We're all stories in the end. Let's make it a good one.
"Dance like nobody's watching, but write like it will be read out loud in court."
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